Feedback request: Carduus (31477)

[qgroom]

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Specimen #302302

Taxon:	Asteraceae: Carduus nutans L. ("Musk Thistle")
Other name:	Asteraceae: Carduus crispus x nutans = C. x stangii H. Buek ex Nyman
Filed in taxon folder:	Asteraceae: Carduus L.
Collected by:	Rev. Augustin Ley
Collection date:	12/8/1888
Locality:	Great Britain, VC36 Herefordshire, Prothither, SO536300, roadside near
ex herb:	Rev. Augustin Ley
Institution:	University of Birmingham (BIRM)
Image:
fruits/flowers:	mature flowers
notes:	' Carduus nutanti [= nutans??] x Carduus arvensis [= Cirsium arvense] '
Filing note:	Carduus sp. indet

Documented by oldnick following initial work by qgroom on 23^rd June 2010.

Checked by mossysal

Edit history

date	user	change
24/09/2010	oldnick	Added note: ' Carduus nutanti [= nutans??] x Carduus arvensis [= Cirsium arvense] '
24/09/2010	oldnick	Deleted locality: GB VC36, roadside
24/09/2010	oldnick	Added locality: GB VC36, roadside near Prothither [west of Hoarwithy] SO536300 (place)
24/09/2010	oldnick	Added collector: Rev. Augustin Ley
11/05/2011	mossysal	Deleted determination (orig): Carduus
11/05/2011	mossysal	Added determination (orig): Carduus nutans
11/05/2011	mossysal	Added determination (orig): Carduus crispus x nutans = C. x stangii
11/05/2011	mossysal	Deleted locality: GB VC36, roadside near Prothither [west of Hoarwithy] SO536300 (place)
11/05/2011	mossysal	Added locality: GB VC36 Prothither, roadside near SO536300 (place)

N.B. reporting of the edit history is currently fairly unclear and misleading. Most edits made to specimens appear as a pair of 'add' and 'delete' entries, which may not be together in the list. There are also often 'minor' edits, which are made automatically (rather than due to user activity), for example to merge synonym names.

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User comments about this sheet

qgroom wrote

perhaps Carduus x stangii although I don't see much difference to Carduus nutans

[Chris Liffen]

Location - Prothither ? SO536300

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1455976
Chris

[oldnick]

Prothither seems right, given it is in District 2 (Ross District - and near Ley's home!). The label says Carduus nutanti [= ??] x Carduus arvensis [= Cirsium arvense] - I cannot find a reference to nutanti; which can hardly = nutans, as that hybrid can hardly exist??

[Chris Liffen]

just for interest, a reference to nutanti

[David Price]

Carduus nutanti-defloratus Dòli. Im Atlitzgraben bei Schottwien.
Cardutis acanthoidi-nutans Koch. Im Atlitzgraben bei Schottwien.
Cirsium rivulari-oleraceum Rchb. Im Stuppachgraben bei Gloggnitz.
Cirsium palustri-oleraceum Nägeli. Im Weissenbachgraben. bei Gloggnitz.

all from http://www.biologiezentrum.at/pdf_frei_remote/VZBG_26_0461-0476.pdf

'nutanti' is the dative case of 'nutans' and appears to be a grammatical requisite (indicating paternal parentage?) in the formation of a compound specific epithet to describe a hybrid (cf. the descriptions of plant communities e.g. sphagneto-caricetum). I presume 'Cardutis' indicates a hybrid at generic level.

(This is but educated supposition as someone has borrowed my Stearn).