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Feedback request: Trifolium subterraneum (2759)

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Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Feedback request: Trifolium subterraneum (2759) Reply with quote

This post was made automatically in response to a request for comment on the documentation form. There is more general info about such requests here.

Specimen #312520

Taxon:Fabaceae: Trifolium subterraneum L. ("Subterranean Clover")
Filed in taxon folder:Fabaceae: Trifolium subterraneum L. ("Subterranean Clover")
Collection date:12/6/1913
Locality:Great Britain, VC34 West Gloucestershire, Lancaut, ST59
ex herb:John Wilton Haines
Institution:Gloucester City Museum (GLR)
Image:Trifolium subterraneum herbarium specimen from Lancaut, VC34 West Gloucestershire in 1913.
fruits/flowers:mature flowers

Inferred details are marked.

Documented by hhobart on 29th December 2010.

Checked by oldnick

Edit history

29/12/2010tom humphreyDeleted determination (orig): Trifolium subterraneum
29/12/2010tom humphreyAdded determination (orig): Trifolium subterraneum
29/12/2010tom humphreyDeleted note: VC 59
29/12/2010tom humphreyDeleted locality: , Illegible note
29/12/2010tom humphreyAdded locality: GB VC34 Lancaut
29/12/2010tom humphreyDeleted provenance: exherb (John Wilton Haines (1875-1960))
29/12/2010tom humphreyAdded provenance: exherb John Wilton Haines
29/12/2010tom humphreyDeleted collection date: 6/12/19134
29/12/2010tom humphreyAdded collection date: 12/6/1913
15/05/2013<system> (minor automatic edit)Deleted provenance: exherb John Wilton Haines
15/05/2013<system> (minor automatic edit)Added provenance: exherb John Wilton Haines

N.B. reporting of the edit history is currently fairly unclear and misleading. Most edits made to specimens appear as a pair of 'add' and 'delete' entries, which may not be together in the list. There are also often 'minor' edits, which are made automatically (rather than due to user activity), for example to merge synonym names.

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User comments about this sheet

hhobart wrote
Couldn't get very much information out of this one.

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Tom Humphrey
Site Admin

Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Posts: 1298
Location: Wallingford, UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi hhobart, welcome to herb@home!

This is a fairly horrible sheet to decipher.

I think the locality is 'Lancaut' Gloucestershire - not somewhere I'd heard of before. The specimen is from Gloucester Museum and is mostly fairly local to the museum. The sheet was probably collected by J W Haines (even though it only notes that it is ex herb) who was [href=]collecting around Gloucestershire[/href] that day. (you can quickly search to see if there are other records when the cursor is in the place field there is a link to collector related search results near the top left of the form)

VC is short for vice-county, a system of rigidly defined county boundaries commonly used for biological recording as they remain static unlike political boundaries which shift due to gerrymandering etc. There's a tool to convert from grid reference to vice-county, here. If you type a number into the region box then the corresponding county name will come-up.

Unfortunately I think the 'VC59' note is wrong - probably added later by a curator who has misread Lancaut as Lancashire. (usually VC numbers written on sheets are quite reliable)

I switched the date around - the system gets confused with American-style dates, so 12th June 1913 has to be written 12/6/1913.

The other really minor change I've made is that I noticed that you entered the taxon names with the authority and common name parts included - which unfortunately the database doesn't recognise correctly. If you need to enter taxon names please just put the unqualified latin name, e.g. 'Trifolium subterraneum' rather than 'Trifolium subterraneum L. "Subterranean Clover"'. The name-author and common name are tied to this in the database so the system will add them afterwards. In general you probably won't need to edit the taxon name field - which is pre-set based on how the specimen is currently filed in the herbarium.

Similarly, with the collector names, please enter just a name (optionally with title or suffix where this helps to disambiguate) avoiding dates or notes in that field - as far as possible please click on names from the drop-down list. For many collector dates and other linked information are already included in the database.

I should get most of the above included in the help for new users - it's not surprising that everyone starting gets caught-out becuase currently the online-help is very poor - something I need to sort out urgently!

thanks for all your work so far and welcome to the project.


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Joined: 28 Dec 2010
Posts: 19

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you so very much, Tom, for your most helpful notes. I have printed them and am keeping a notebook of things I must work harder on to get right, such as using American-style dates.

This is tremendously interesting and great fun to work on.

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Mike d'Apice

Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 693

PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For info of Hhobart, if not already found it - The "Where's the path?" mapping site listed under the "Useful mapping Site", the second link in the "Useful links" topic under the "Message Board" is vg for tracking down places and seeing what they look like.... 'Lancaut' is the farm enclosed by a loop of the river at ST5297. Many more place names come up under the link on the maps and gazeteers link but without the grids....

For Tom: Been meaning to request if for ages: Can you add the Where's the Path link to the "Maps and Gazetteers" list? Thanks.
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