Doncaster & Huntingdon collector

[oldnick]

In ABS there is an enormous number of anonymous sheets in distinctive handwriting & style of labelling, from around 1874-5, eg: http://herbariaunited.org/specimen/268649/
these come from numerous widespread locations, but so far I find them most frequently from S W Yorkshire, also Easton in North Essex, followed by Huntingdon. No doubt they could be found from other locations!
Any suggestions re collector??

[oldnick]

A number of these are labelled 'R' and one 'Rose' see
http://herbariaunited.org/specimen/268806/ ; and:
http://herbariaunited.org/specimensearch/?taxon=&taxonid=&collector=R+R&colid=16329&role=prov&from=1865&to=1885&search=search&Country=gbie&VC=all&place=&placeid=&Inst=all&search=search ;
I have wondered about Rose Fryer, whose father Alfred Fryer lived at Chatteris (near Huntingdon); her writing is not too dissimilar:
http://herbariaunited.org/numberedsheets/4079.jpg
but I find no other connection; however Alfred Fryer's writing is very similar: http://herbariaunited.org/specimen/293950/?image
http://herbariaunited.org/specimen/263843/?image ; and some are in ABS; He has a multitude of specimens from Cambs & Hunts on H@H, but very few from further afield, so if he did collect from elsewhere his sheets must be anonymous - as per those I've been looking at (to which I can now add many from Middlesex as well as S W Yorkshire, N Essex etc.
Any info re Fryer's wanderings, if any there were, would be very helpful.

[Chris Liffen]

There is some detail of Fryer's life on the wiki http://herbariaunited.org/wiki/Alfred_Fryer. Rose was the name of his first wife, who died circa 1850. He married again to Clara, and they had a family of six children - perhaps a Rose amongst them? NO - see below Rose was daughter of his first marriage. He outlived his second wife by more than a decade, and his 'children' dispersed / married, leaving him alone in Chatteris.
He collected his specimens by walking considerable distances from his home in 4 Wood Street, Chatteris. He did not inherit the monies / property that he had 'expected' so spent much of his time growing his own fruit / veg, (and Potamogetons in tanks / ponds at home).
There is an interesting bio of him at the ONDB, written by David Allen.
Chris

[Guest]

Re Fryer children - from the 1881 census: It details Alfred and Clara living at North Street, Chatteris, with children ranging from another Clara (22), Daniel (20), Catherine M (19), Charles (17), Elizabeth (13), Alfred (11), Edwin (9) and finally George (1).... the nearest Rose Fryer was only 5 and living at 162 Park Rd, Luton, but her father a boot-maker was also an Alfred Fryer, her mother was an Elizabeth.

Doesn't look like any of these Fryers had an R initial, unless not known by or used their registered Christian names...

[Chris Liffen]

Yes, had come to similar conclusions.
Chris

[Guest]

Just shutting down the census and noticed a "related match" one Rosa Fryer aged 45 in 1881 of 41 Cambridge Street Hendon, Willesdon but who was born in Chattrus Cambridge, and whose mother was Caroline Fryer by them 82 and living with her and another 2 older female Fryers and a Sainsbury. Can't spot the parents of Alfred or Rosa but can't be all that many in Chattrus? if so she might be a relative and hence a possible candidate for the "R".....

[/b]

[Chris Liffen]

that is presumably a transcription error for Chatteris .....

[oldnick]

The Rose Fryer I had in mind, is she who collected at Aymestrey Herfordshire in 1884 eg http://herbariaunited.org/specimen/230351/
and who is named on these labels along with Alfred Fryer of Chatteris, the label being in handwriting resembling his. So there clearly is a Rose Fryer; I was not seeking to establish her existence, but to suggest the R on various other labels as a possible link to the anonymous collector of those particular specimens, given my suspicion it could be Alfred Fryer. Meanwhile I find that Little Easton in Essex, the source of numerous such sheets, was the seat of the Countess of Warwickshire and had extensive gardens - if that is any clue. There are very many sheets from this anonymous person from widespread places eg Cusworth in Yorkshire. Any suggestions would be extremely welcome.

[Chris Liffen]

I would agree that these 3 particular labels look as though they are in 'pondweed' Fryer's hand; I will have a look at his children again.

[chris liffen]

In 1871, a Rose /a Fryer is listed on the census - daughter of Alfred Fryer in Chatteris. She is the daughter of his first marriage.
Result !
chris

[Liffen, Chris]

After a bit of rummage, it would appear that his first wife's maiden name was Sally Negus Rose. They married 1 January, 1848 on the I of W. She died 2nd quarter 1850.
Chris

[Sue N]

Have just found various messages re Alfred Fryer on this site. I am interested in the Fryer family from Chatteris. Is your interest only in the plants he researched?

[oldnick]

Alfred Fryer and his family and connections have certainly intrigued me, not least having read his obituary (in Journal of Botany 1912 I think, on the BSBI website - which unfortunately I don't think names any of his family). I would be interested for instance to know who was the relative he originally expected to inherit from. From a plant point of view, I have been hoping to identify the collector of many similar anonymous Aberystwyth sheets, Fryer being a suspect not least because some of the collections are from Huntingdon (though not the Huntingdon Elm, which Ley collected there!). In my quest, I have wanted to know whether he has any relationship to May Cheffins or to the Countess of Warwick, both apparently of Little Easton in Essex. Also whether Rose or any of the family lived either in Middlesex or Herefordshire. Apparently some Fryers of ?Lancashire are suppliers of garden roses - connection with the gardens at Little Easton?? It seems there was more than one Fryer family in Chatteris. I wonder if he is still remembered there? Or in any writings about the Fens? I must say I felt the obituary was slightly patronising and that unless Fryer professed a similarly ironic view of himself, he deserved a better memorial. I am sure botanists would greatly welcome any information you have.

[Chris Liffen]

He has a biography written by Dr D E Allen at the Oxford DNB.
If you have a local library card then you can login to the ODNB here
http://www.oxforddnb.com/
scroll down a bit and enter your library card number and then you can search the biographies for Alfred Fryer - it might interest
his obituary in the J of Botany can be accessed here
http://www.archive.org/stream/journalofbotanyb50londuoft#page/105/mode/1up
Regards
Chris

[Sue N]

Alfred Fryer was my Great Grandfather. In the past I have done quite alot of research about the Fryer family. They were important in Chatteris over a long period. I have recently moved house and currently can't lay my hands on all the paperwork to do with this research. I did go to find AF's grave some years ago