Feedback request: Carex canescens (1133691)

[Roger Horton]

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Specimen #390976

Taxon:	Carex canescens L.
Filed in taxon folder:	Carex canescens L.
Collected by:	Prof Charles Cardale Babington
Collection date:	15/8/1862
Locality:	Great Britain, VC49 Caernarvonshire, Llyn Bach, SH6155, 'Llyn y Cwm bach' [site - see http://herbariaunited.org/core/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25942#25942 ]
ex herb:	Prof Charles Cardale Babington Norman Douglas Simpson
Institution:	Natural History Museum (BM)
Accession number:	1133691
Image:
collector's number:	13340
notes:	Collected by Norman Douglas Simpson [printed on label, even though he was only 2 years old at the time]

Documented by xmhcman on 15^th April 2015.

Checked by mossysal

Edit history

date	user	change
19/04/2015	mossysal	Deleted locality: GB VC49 Llyn y Cwn, Llyn y Cwm bach SH6358 (place)
19/04/2015	mossysal	Added locality: GB VC49 Llyn y Cŵn, Llyn y Cwm bach SH6358 (place)
21/10/2015	mossysal	Deleted locality: GB VC49 Llyn y Cŵn, Llyn y Cwm bach SH6358 (place)
21/10/2015	mossysal	Added locality: GB VC49 Llyn Bach, Llyn y Cwm bach SH636584 (place)
24/08/2016	oldnick	Deleted locality: GB VC49 Llyn Bach, Llyn y Cwm bach SH636584 (place)
24/08/2016	oldnick	Added locality: GB VC49 Llyn Bach, 'Llyn y Cwm bach' [site - see http://herbariaunited.org/core/forum/viewtopic.php?p=25942#25942 ] SH6155 (place)
24/08/2016	oldnick	Added provenance: exherb Norman Douglas Simpson

N.B. reporting of the edit history is currently fairly unclear and misleading. Most edits made to specimens appear as a pair of 'add' and 'delete' entries, which may not be together in the list. There are also often 'minor' edits, which are made automatically (rather than due to user activity), for example to merge synonym names.

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User comments about this sheet

xmhcman wrote

'Collected by Norman Douglas Simpson' printed on label, even though he was only 2 years old at the time. Ex herb. C.C. Babington, and he is the likely collector as his Journal says he was at Llyn y Cwm this day.

[mossysal]

I agree that the label must be in error and Babington is the likely collector as he was apparently in the area of Snowdon that week.

There seems to be a question over exactly where he was - I now think he was in the area of Cwm Glas below Crib y Ddisgyl on Snowdon [SH615555] where the lake is called Llyn Bach. Anyway he was certainly NOT in VC48 st Llyn Cwm Bychan, so it seems that the other sheets of Carex canescens [C curta] are also from Cwm Bach on Snowdon

[Roger Horton]

Yes, I agree.
On 13 August 1862 Babington, Newbold, and Mr J. Gay of Paris, arrived at "Padarn Villa" Hotel, Llanberris (OS SH578600).
Of 15th August Babingtom records "To Llyn-y-Cwm. In the smaller lake I got I. echinospora. Mr. Gay was very much fatigued by his trip to Llyn-y-Cwm". The "smaller lake" probably means Llyn Peris. The return trip past this lake to Llyn-y-Cwm would have been about 12km with 600m ascent. Poor Mr Gay!

[David Price]

I would interpret the label as "ex herb N D Simpson".

But aren't a great number of these "ex herb" attributions pretty meaningless in that they do not disclose the provenance, or paper trail, in the form of e.g. Distributors Clubs' stamps or "comm." statements? That is the legacy of herbarium-empires like Bailey's or many institutional curators.