Feedback request: Brassica rapa (23072)

[oldnick]

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Specimen #308043

Taxon:	Brassicaceae: Brassica rapa var. briggsii
Filed in taxon folder:	Brassicaceae: Brassica rapa var. briggsii
Collected by:	Rev. Augustin Ley
Collection date:	7/1860
Locality:	Great Britain, VC47 Montgomeryshire, Cwm Rhaiadr, SN79, 'Cwm Rhaeadr' [Cwmyrhaiadr above Derwenlas SN750965 - see message board]
ex herb:	Rev. Augustin Ley
Institution:	University of Birmingham (BIRM)
Image:
fruits/flowers:	mature flowers

Inferred details are marked.

Documented by oldnick on 13^th September 2010.

Edit history

date	user	change
16/09/2010	oldnick	Deleted locality: GB VC48 Ffestiniog, Cwm Rhaeadr
16/09/2010	oldnick	Added locality: GB VC48, 'Cwm Rhaeadr' [Cwmyrhaiadr above Derwenlas SN750965 - see message board] SN79 (place)
30/07/2011	oldnick	Deleted locality: GB VC48, 'Cwm Rhaeadr' [Cwmyrhaiadr above Derwenlas SN750965 - see message board] SN79 (place)
30/07/2011	oldnick	Added locality: GB VC48 Cwmyrhaiadr, 'Cwm Rhaeadr' [Cwmyrhaiadr above Derwenlas SN750965 - see message board] SN79 (place)
31/08/2015	chrisu	Deleted locality: GB VC48 Cwmyrhaiadr, 'Cwm Rhaeadr' [Cwmyrhaiadr above Derwenlas SN750965 - see message board] SN79 (place)
31/08/2015	chrisu	Added locality: GB VC47 Cwm Rhaiadr, 'Cwm Rhaeadr' [Cwmyrhaiadr above Derwenlas SN750965 - see message board]

N.B. reporting of the edit history is currently fairly unclear and misleading. Most edits made to specimens appear as a pair of 'add' and 'delete' entries, which may not be together in the list. There are also often 'minor' edits, which are made automatically (rather than due to user activity), for example to merge synonym names.

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User comments about this sheet

oldnick wrote

location vague - this species would be unusual at Rhaeadr y Cwm (on a mountain!)

[mossysal]

Yes, I doubt it is this site, but as "Rhaeadr" only means "waterfall" there is plenty of scope in Wales for vagueness!

Ley seems to have been based on Machynlleth from late June 1860 through July, and there are a dozen or so sheets labelled variously Rhaeadr y Cwm, Rhaidr, etc, from both Monts and Merioneths. It's interesting that, unusually, he didn't give a precise date, so maybe they were labelled much later - hence the vagueness?

Perhaps we should wait until more sheets appear from this period, to try to pin the location? I have fiddled about with some of these in the past, but now I think I was wrong and we can't be certain!

[mossysal]

I asked a local person if she knew of a Cwm Rhaeadr near Machynlleth - and she did - it is not in Gwynn Ellis's gazetteer of Welsh place names.

What is more it is at the top of the Llyfnant valley which was often visited by Ley at other times -
OS Grid reference SN750965

. It is right on the county boundary. which may explain why Ley was so vague and although it does not seem near VC48 Merioneth, it is only about 4 miles from the point at which all three counties meet.

It looks a good bet for many of the rather vague place names Ley used.

[oldnick]

wow - have edited in