Feedback request: Pimpinella major (15359)

[hallucigenia]

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Specimen #269398

Taxon:	Apiaceae: Pimpinella major (L.) Huds. ("Greater Burnet-saxifrage") named by John Francis Michael Cannon 11/1966
Filed in taxon folder:	Apiaceae: Pimpinella major (L.) Huds. ("Greater Burnet-saxifrage")
Collection date:	6/1888
Locality:	Great Britain, VC38 Warwickshire, Berkswell, SP27
ex herb:	Birmingham Natural History and Philosophical Society
Institution:	University of Birmingham (BIRM)
Image:
fruits/flowers:	mature flowers

Inferred details are marked.

Documented by hallucigenia following initial work by keith barnett on 30^th December 2008.

Edit history

date	user	change
10/10/2010	hallucigenia	Deleted determination (orig): Pimpinella major
10/10/2010	hallucigenia	Added determination (orig): Pimpinella major on 11/1966
10/10/2010	hallucigenia	Deleted note: Det. J F M Cannon 11/1966 no collector named
10/10/2010	hallucigenia	Added collector: Prof George Stephen West
10/10/2010	hallucigenia	Added determiner: John Francis Michael Cannon
11/10/2010	hallucigenia	Deleted collector: Prof George Stephen West
11/10/2010	hallucigenia	Added collector: (Unnamed Collector)
16/12/2011	chrisu	Deleted collector: (Unnamed Collector)

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User comments about this sheet

hallucigenia wrote

Collector; there are two other specimens from this date/site, one W West, one Bagnall these are the only named collectors of 20 specimens of those I have examined
c 10, all appear to have been written in the same hand and style. All specimens are for B.N.H.P.S. and/or G.S. West I think the hand is of G.S.West?

[David Price]

I don't think this was collected by the 12 year old G S West and I don't think it is his handwriting. I suggest 'unnamed collector' and specimen labelled by 'unnamed curator'.

[oldnick]

The handwriting of site & date does quite resemble West's, and though it is not the hand of a 12-year old, he may have mounted/curated these sheets later on; I have been tempted to speculate that West was the collector in such cases given the large number of Broadway & Berkswell specimens both in the Nat Hist Phil collection and his own (but were any collected when he was definitely too young!!?); what does Mossysal think?
http://herbariaunited.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4885

[mossysal]

I once thought that these sheets were West's but I have come round to agree with Wonastow. I also think they are curator's labels. I still think that
George West was likely to be collecting at a very early age - but why in Warwicks? There are a great many similar sheets. I wonder whether David Antrobus might know? I will email him.

[mossysal]

Further thoughts: there are 147 sheets on the database from Warwicks attributed to George West as collector, and browsing them I find many of them were from labels by the BIRM curator. I suggest that we have added to this possible misconception!
see http://herbariaunited.org/specimensearch/?taxon=&taxonid=&collector=Prof+G+S+West&colid=17109&role=col&from=&to=&search=search&Country=gbie&VC=VC38&place=&placeid=&Inst=all&search=search#searchlist

Another interesting sheet: http://herbariaunited.org/specimen/291857/?image which has the note "from George" in the same hand. If collected by GSW it wouldn't say that, would it - the implication that the hand is NOT his!

The earliest Warwicks sheet I can find attributed to him but not by us is http://herbariaunited.org/specimen/256529/ which was from an external database (BIRM) when he was 16. Maybe their curator was under the same misapprehension as us?

[hallucigenia]

That was all very interesting, I am glad I brought it up, if it clears up a lot of sheets, all to the good.
And we will all be clearer on future sheets.

[oldnick]

Thanks for all that, I will go and sign myself in somewhere far from the cares of the world

[hallucigenia]

A thought occurred we all agree [I think] that we are/were tempted towards G.S.West but age etc is against this, but would it have been likely that he collected when young and say remounted them when older before donating them thus all would look the same.
I know the above 'sameness' would apply to a curator too, and was West ever associated with Birmingham.
Will look at the above later.
Somewhat later, Yes of course he was!