Feedback request: Persicaria lapathifolia (11803)

[hallucigenia]

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Specimen #293322

Taxon:	Polygonaceae: Persicaria lapathifolia (L.) Delarbre ("Pale Persicaria")
Filed in taxon folder:	Polygonaceae: Persicaria lapathifolia (L.) Delarbre ("Pale Persicaria")
Collected by:	John Dugdale
Collection date:	8/1852
Locality:	Great Britain, VC59 South Lancashire, Accrington, SD72, Waste places
ex herb:	Donor Unknown
Institution:	University of Birmingham (BIRM)
Image:
fruits/flowers:	seeds/fruits

Inferred details are marked.

Documented by hallucigenia on 27^th March 2010.

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User comments about this sheet

hallucigenia wrote

N.B. Donor Unknown The writing on the label compares very well with that of J.G. Baker of which there are two further specimens from that time/place [collecting also for G.S.West.] what thoughts?

[mossysal]

There's a signature J. Dugdale, who apparently collected with Baker!

[hallucigenia]

Yes he did and a search shows that he also collected for him and G S West
When I compared the handwriting on this sheet with Baker it appeared to me to be the same, so I rather fancy Baker as "Herb", that was my point. And there other specimens from that date but only one with/ for Baker others for West [1] Bailey [1] plus blank [4] and an "unknown" my thought was if we could nail down this one I would search the rest to try to sort out the donor
Chris

[David Price]

This is a splendid example of "Donor Unknown" flagging a specimen of interesting provenance.

The collector is John Dugdale of Accrington. Apart from a brief entry in Desmond ("floruit 1850s; plants at Merseyside") I can find no other mention of him. Simpson refers to J[ames] Dugdale, author of 'The New British Traveller' 1819 and D P Young in his paper on Oxalis (1957) in Watsonia 4 mentions G F Dugdale of Accrington (specimen at BM). The former has no connection; is "G F" an error?

I think the handwriting on this label may well be Dugdale's. For an example of Baker's hand on one of Dugdale's specimens see http://herbariaunited.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3450

Miss Atwood has one of Dugdale's plants http://herbariaunited.org/specimen/269195/ .

Note that these specimens are all 1852, about 25 years before G S West was born. Baker, at that time, was running the Thirsk Natural History Society Exchange Club (successor to and forerunner of Botanical Society of London exchange clubs) which must have been the distributor of many of the specimens of the time. The presence in West's herbarium of so many plants collected in the 1850s may have more to do with opportunities arising when employed at Birmingham University than with an active association with Baker (though Baker was then still alive, albeit elderly).

The curatorial practices at BIRM, e.g. remounting two or more specimens of unrelated provenance on one sheet, can be Sirens luring us to unwarranted conclusions.

[Tom Humphrey]

Parts of the James Dugdale's "The new British traveller" are online vol. 2, vol. 3 and vol. 4 (published c. 1819 according to archive.org)

The dates currently in the system for John Dugdale are 1828 - >1861 (I assume these are from Kent and Allen).

Confirming the link with Baker and the Thirsk Exchange Club there's a reference in Simpson to a specimen of Habenaria chlorantha from Accrington collected by John Dugdale and exhibited by J G Baker:
http://www.archive.org/stream/phytologistbotan5859irvi#page/306/mode/1up


(post tagged with John Dugdale (1828->1861))

[hallucigenia]

Thanks to you both.
I have always assumed that when a specimen pre-dated a donor then it was "willed" to them or came via a second party, i.e. some of Ley's sheets that have been through four hands.
I have always thought of them meeting up at club gatherings or as they seem to constantly exchange specimens and letters, specimens arrived that way.
You have access to reference works I do not in tracing collectors etc.
But I assume from your posts the answer is no?
Chris

[Tom Humphrey]

I think the handwriting probably is Dugdale's, but Baker very possibly was involved (but there is no direct evidence from this sheet to decide that either way).

A huge amount of botanical literature is now available online. For example the catalogue by Simpson is on the BSBI website (downloadable as a pdf from http://www.watsonia.org.uk/ ) http://www.watsonia.org.uk/SimpsonsIndex.pdf [pdf]

Another useful reference is Britten and Boulger's 'British and Irish Botanists' which I'm in the process of getting online http://herbariaunited.org/britten-and-boulger-bibliographical-index-of-deceased-british-and-irish-botanists.html (Desmond, is a later edition of the same work)

Otherwise there's a huge amount of literature on-line at archive.org (including works scanned as part of the Biodiversity Heritage Library project).

[hallucigenia]

Thanks tom I have added the links to "evernote"
Chris